so i assume the golden rule has become death?
Christopher Hook
no, i think he was referring to solidiers attitude towards the philippinians, which was that they are savages, and we, we are the good christians doing whats right for our country and our little boys at home, etc. So we are firing the golden rule (aka our supremacy, albeit ignorant) into savages for our own glory)... very pessimistic.. and we actually lost this war though...
El' VaMeter
:) cool! i aught to check that piece out.. sooo like, do i like your status or your explanation?? XD
Brad BaranowskiAny particular reason why this is your status today?
Devon Holliday
What is so pessimistic, Mr. Optimist? Mark Twain's poignant quote or how wars are fought....?
Brad Baranowski
Wait a minute, I just read the NYT article hahaha. Well played sir
Christopher Hook
Larkin-- both!
Good question Brad... researching for my thesis in Paris has essentially been a study of the ego... and especially of the Western ego, with its MOs of supremacy, civilizing missions, etc. Not that I needed much prodding (to be more cynical on this topic), but I suppose I'm just uncovering more ways that white privilege and Western ... Afficher davantagesupremacy have manifested themselves throughout history. And killing massive amounts of people is one of the most evil. I hate the idea of civlizing mission, I really do. I guess this answers your question too Devon. Not to mention this apartment is BOILING, makes a man grouchy :)
Brad Baranowski
But if we don't help the barbarians become civilized how will they ever ascend out of backwardness and unGodliness?
El' VaMeter
dude you should definitely hit the town with a notebook and get out tof the heat-- elohel
Christopher Hook
Thank you Stanislaw Jr.
Brad Baranowski
Haha pas de probleme
Devon Holliday
Have you had a chat with Mr. Zoller about this topic? I think he would make you feel more optimistic about the benefits of western civilization. Beyond that, nearly all civilizations are drenched in blood, so don't get too upset about the atrocities brought on by Western civilizations :)
Question though, Weren't the French the most guilty out of... Afficher davantage all the early European colonizers for their "civilizing missions"?
Hope a strong breeze picks up so you can try to cool down a wee bit! In the mean time, I'll relish my AC.
so many quotes, so little time.
I'd say this trait is less western than human. Westerners can just afford the biggest guns.
Christopher Hook
Brad- I want to get the autobiography!!!
Larkin-- I did. It was better.
Trip- that's definitely true, Marx nailed that one on the head too. But I think there's something about the Western ideology that makes leaders want to colonize the world, make it a better place. Yeah, you can argue empires in the east did this too, but I think there's a reason they were eventually defeated... capitalism!... Afficher davantage
Devon-- Haha no I haven't, Steven usually doesn't need any encouragement to jump in on our debates. But he hasn't yet.. strange. Maybe he's having dinner with his family, or hiking (kidding steven!). Yeah, the French did this with Algéria, explicitly described as a mission civilisatrice. There's a reason why this ubiquitous term is in French... Belgium did it in the Congo, England in India... there was a conference in Berlin in like 1887 where the European leaders basically laid out a map and choose what African countries they wanted. France was already ahead of them getting Algéria in 1830, but this is when a lot of the colonization of Africa happened. And I can't help but be upset, no matter the civilization, it just happens that I am a Westerner and have inherent feeling of guilt I just can't get over, especially spending my days in all black and North African neighborhoods...
Christopher Hook
Devon I realized I spelled ubiquitous wrong. I still cant spell it as you can see. I guess I am a dumb american... its interesting, sometimes we think of westerners as cold calculating intelligent beyond belief enough to build systems of repression for centuries and to beat nature and natural law.... but then we have a stereotype of a dumb american... Afficher davantage... i think those are two different levels of analysis though, the former being a historical materialist one, the latter being a rather lazy cultural stereotype with no real truth in it
Trip Hook
Well, colonialism packaged with a rationale and honest-to-God altruism are two different things. I realize that the West still does exploitative things that might qualify as neo-colonialism, but I can't think of too many examples in living history of us going into a foreign country and ostensibly trying to "tame the savages" like the good ol' days... Afficher davantage. If anything, the opposite is happening - the countries we ravaged in the old days want back in. It seems to me that the immigration troubles they're having in France now are a consequence of "reaping what we sow", even if it is several generations after the fact.
Devon Holliday
Haha - Don't worry, I figured we had a cease-fire on calling out each other's grammar/spelling mistakes. Besides - I think that is how you spell "Ubiquitous"....at least that is what the online dictionary is telling me!!
You really are such an optimist. I personally believe stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason (For instance, women are ... Afficher davantageterrible drivers and I will readily admit that I am a terrible driver) - and I *especially* believe that Americans have grown fat (have you see obesity rates????) and lazy (Have you seen heart attack rates???) and, most importantly, self-interested (see: Financial Crisis/infatuation with suing) True patriotism, that type that JFK called for, is a rarity nowadays (Hellooooo dismal voting rates/aspirations to serve one's country.) But you go on thinking the best of our fellow citizens. Somebody needs too. :)
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